Major social platforms have cracked down on the spread of disinformation and conspiracy theories in the run-up to the presidential election, expanding their efforts in the wake of the January 6 uprising at the Capitol. But Apple and Google, among others, have left a big loophole for this material: podcasts.
With podcasts made available by the two Big Tech companies, you can tune in to the world of QAnon conspiracy theory, wallow in President Donald Trump’s false claims about stolen elections, and bask in other extremism. Accounts banned from social media for mis-election information, threats or harassment, and violation of other rules also still live as podcasts available on the tech giants’ platforms.
Conspiracy theorists have provoked stolen election fantasies, coronavirus conspiracies and violent rhetoric. A podcaster, RedPill78, called the Capitol siege a “staged event” in a Jan. 11 episode of Red Pill News. The day before the Capitol riot, a more popular podcast, X22 Report, spoke confidently of Trump’s second term, explaining that Trump would have to ‘remove’ many members of Congress to advance his plans, saying, ‘We the people, we are the storm, and we’re coming to DC. “
Both are available on Apple and Google podcast platforms.
Podcasting “plays an especially big role” in spreading white supremacy, one said 2018 report of the Anti-Defamation League. Many white supremacists, such as QAnon supporters, support Trump. Podcasting is an intimate, humanizing way of communication that allows extremists to express their ideas for hours on end, said Oren Segal of ADL’s Center on Extremism.
Elsewhere on social media, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube have cracked down on bills reinforcing QAnon’s unfounded claims that Trump is fighting deep enemies of the state and cannibals who operate a child trafficking ring. A large talk radio company, Cumulus, told its hosts to downplay rhetoric about stolen elections and violent uprisings or the risk of termination, although it is not clear what impact that dictation had.
Google-owned YouTube scrapped ‘Bannon’s War Room,’ a channel run by Trump loyalist Steve Bannon on Jan. 8, after spreading false election claims and calling for the beheading of Dr. Anthony Fauci, America’s top infectious disease expert. But podcast versions of Bannon’s show can be seen live on Apple and Google. Spotify removed it in November, according to one of the hosts.
“Hatred podcasts and incitement to violence should not be treated differently than any other content,” said Segal. “If you want to take a strong stand against hatred and extremism on the platform in any way, it has to be comprehensive.”
Apple, Spotify and Google manage lists of top podcasts and recommend them to users. Apple and Spotify are the dominant players in the US, with other players far behind, said Dave Zohrob, CEO of the podcast analytics company Chartable. Despite its brand awareness, Google remains a small presence.
Spotify said it is removing podcasts that violate its policies against hate speech, copyright violations or laws by using “algorithmic and human detection measures” to identify violations. Apple’s guidelines prohibit content that is illegal or that promotes violence, explicit sex or drugs, or that is “otherwise perceived as obscene, offensive, or of bad taste.” Apple did not respond to repeated questions about the content guidelines or moderation.
Google declined to explain the discrepancy between what’s available on YouTube and what’s on Google Podcasts, saying only that its podcast service “indexes audio available on the Internet” in the same way that the search engine indexes web pages. The company said it is removing podcasts from its platform “in very rare circumstances, largely guided by local law.”
X22 Report and Bannon’s War Room were No. 20 and No. 32 on Apple’s top podcast list on Friday. (Experts say that list measures a podcast’s momentum rather than total listeners.) X22 Report said in October it was shelved by YouTube and Spotify, and last week by Twitter. It is also no longer available on Facebook. It is supported by ads for products such as survival food, unlicensed nutritional supplements, and gold coins, which run before and during the podcasts.
The Red Pill News website said YouTube banned its videos in October and a Twitter suspension followed. The podcast is available on Apple and Google, but not on Spotify.
Several QAnon advocates affected by the crackdown sued YouTube in October, calling his actions a ‘massive de-platforming’. Plaintiffs include X22 Report, RedPill78, and David Hayes, who runs another conspiracy podcast called Praying Medic that’s available on Apple and Google, but not Spotify.
Melody Torres, who creates podcasts at SoulWarrior Uncensored, identifies herself as a longtime QAnon follower and said on a recent episode that her podcast is “just my way of not getting censored.” She said she was kicked off Twitter in January and four times from Instagram last year. She currently has Instagram, Facebook and YouTube accounts; her podcast is available on Spotify, Apple and Google.
X22 Report, RedPill78 and Hayes did not respond to requests for comment sent through their websites. Torres did not respond to a Facebook post.
Podcasts suffer from the same disinformation problem as other platforms, said Shane Creevey, editorial chief at Kinzen, a startup created by former Facebook and Twitter executives that provides a disinformation tracker to businesses, including some that host or run podcasts.
Creevey points out that it is more difficult to analyze misinformation from video and audio than from text. Podcasts can also last for hours, making them difficult to follow. And podcasting has additional challenges because there are no reliable statistics about their audience, unlike a YouTube stream, which shows views, or a tweet or Facebook post, which shows likes and shares, Creevey said.
But some argue that tech company moderation is opaque and inconsistent, creating a new set of problems. Censorship “goes with the tide against what’s popular at any given time,” said Jillian York, an expert at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital rights group. Right now, she said, “that tide is against right-wing extremists’ speech … but tomorrow the tide may be against opposition activists.”
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AP Technology Editor David Hamilton contributed to this article.